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City of Heroes: Question about the concept of the game

Forum >> City of Villains >> City of Villains >> Question about the concept of the game

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swissarmy68

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Question about the concept of the game

My kids play CoH along with me. My son especially enjoys creating characters and writing up backgrounds for them.

What I am wondering is how evil is the CoV game. I don't really want to promote the excitement of being a villian and how much fun it is to be on the dark side.

So the question is does it really promote being evil or are you going after other villians?

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11/07/05 10:46

WarShadow

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

CoV is hardly evil at all the big difference is you are fighting both villians and good guys. As for the late game I can't say much because my altaholism is preventing me from getting a toon over lvl 10.

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11/07/05 10:48

Phedre_D

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

Warshadow, you are trying to persuade swiss's kids into the dark side, you evil villain! The game is not all evil, nor about blood and gore. But I think some of the concepts of COV are promoting illegal behaviour. I am not trying to be the defender of morals here, but robbing a bank and shooting at policemen is not really innocence. Also the conversations that the NPC's have are none too friendly. Of course it is just a game with cartoons, and I am sure your kids will play way more violant games. But the fact remains you are playing a bad person.

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11/07/05 11:06

Solaronn

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

Well, while I've been enjoying CoV, I could see what your question relates to. Here's my take on it. So far Iv'e robbed a abnk, a casino, beaten cops, and other superheroes to bloody pulps. Your contacts tell you not to apprehend, but to do "whatever you deem necessarry" when confronting an opponent. Now be taht as it may, it's very much like CoH. I find myself playing CoH for much longer periods of time then CoV though. At this point in CoV (level 12 I think)I'm still having trouble running around. The beginning areas are MUCH harder to manueve then CoH's paved streets. CoV looks like a war zone in most areas. Kind of like the pictures and images we used to have of Beruit a few years back. Some of the opponents are new, some are CoH opponents operating there as well (Hellions, Skulls, CoT) You play both sides of the fence with arachnos. ( I didn't play CoV yesterday, spent most of the day on CoH) but the last missin I did saturday night was robbing something from an arachnos base. It's fun in that if you role play you get to be truly (comic book style) evil with your speech patterns etc. The main bad guy I created is a megalomaniacal world beater type. He's been depowered by fate and left to rot in the Zig. Now he's escaped, and his powers are slowly returning to him. I have two others on different servers. One is just a madman/pyro with an armored suit, the other is mystical martial artist/asassin with a sword.

All in all it's fun, but if I had kids, I don't know if I'd let them play this because of the "It's sometimes good (Or fun) to be bad." factor.

as an aside, one of the more interesting opponents in the game are the snake men. But you run so many missions against them when starting out that they become boring fast.

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11/07/05 11:10

BishopDon

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

I can understand your concern about this issue. I allow my son to play CoH, only with my supervision (no pun intended). Only because of the MMO factor and all, I really don't want him reading some of the off the wall conversation that goes on in the game. The hero content I'm ok with. However, CoV....a lot of the content would be considered inappropriate (depending on the childs age) in my opinion. I've decided to get the game for myself (CoV), however, my son will not be allowed to play it. I don't know if I will let him watch me play it (i've run the beta test and it doesn't fit with the values I try to instill in him). When he gets older and wants to play CoV (age 14 minimum age) then so be it, but not now. That'll give him 4 more years to develop the reality from fiction world a lot better. IMO

11/07/05 11:22

swissarmy68

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

Thanks, anyone else have an opinion?

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11/07/05 16:49

shpadoinkle

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

I think it depends on the kid. My 14 year old is a very good and smart kid. He loves horror movies and gets to watch all the ones with no sex. He can easily distinquish fiction and has a firm grasp on RL morals. I would let him play it( he doesn't live with me and his mom doesn't let him play online games) but when I think about my sister when she was 14 then no way.

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11/07/05 17:12

thejeni

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

i would say it depends on how old you child is and what exactly you consider bad... i mean if killing, kidnapping, stealing, ect is ok w/ you, then it shouldn't be a problem... but if your kids don't read the story lines (or any of the missions given to you) then you should be fine....

but just for a better view of the game, the tutorial Breakout begins w/ you being in prision and your goal is to break out of prision....

of course if your kids know right from wrong, and that is just a game you should be fine

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11/07/05 17:38

BishopDon

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

For me...it's not entirely the in-game content that is a concern, more so than the in-game conversations. I know some content can (depending on the child) leave a lasting impression on a child. However, when you run across the occasional idiot that wants to spam every last profane name they have learned over their lifetime or conversations in broadcast in Atlas (where my son will be for a while because he doesn't play with any consistancy to level fast at all). These are the types of behaviors that I have to watch and monitor. That's why he only plays with me present and he's not allowed any extended game time.

The content is secondary, however, the idiots are who I'm really trying to monitor him with.

11/07/05 17:40

VinceVoltage

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

Ya know, as a guy who has played very violent video games, being graphic, vulgar, adult in nature, etc, I don't think City of Villains is very "evil" at all. If you let your kid read comics books or play Grand Theft Auto or Doom, this is nothing compared to them. Let's look at the game a little bit, shall we? There's no blood. There's no cursing from the NPC/Computer generated characters (people can curse, but you can keep the profanity block on so all you see is #$@%&!), they never (to my knowledge) tell you to "kill" or "murder," instead using phrases like "take him out" or "take care of the guy." Compared to other "evil" games, its the Diet Coke of evil. Just one evil calorie; not evil enough! : P

Actually, they do some pretty non-evil stuff. I just finished a story arc where I helped save Ghost Widow and some Fortunata Seer's long lost brother. And she showed compassion, love, and thanks (then later turning it into anger and spite, but that's Villainy for you). Its really a watered down evil. I've seen comics get WAY more violent than the game. I remember the issue where Wolverine's adamantium got ripped out of his body. Black comic blood ALL OVER the pages. Yeesh. But I'm diverting...

On a scale of 1-10 (1 being "Green Eggs and Ham" evil, 10 being Doom 3, GTA, and Texas Chainsaw Massacre combined), I'd give City of Villains a 4. Maybe. Its "bad" in the same way pro wrestling is bad: if your kids know its just a game and its all fun, then its fine. But once they start trying it out and think its all real, that's when the trouble starts. Just make sure to explain its just a game, its not the way to behave outside the game, etc. Use it as a basis of what NOT to do.

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11/07/05 18:44

shpadoinkle

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

QUOTE

You can edit the chat window and remove broadcast chat entirely. With the right hero or villain he could solo. Just put him on /hide and nobody can mess with him.

11/07/05 19:11

swissarmy68

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

He does like to team up with other heroes and I don't have too much issue with it. I have explained to him that each hero is another person playing and needs to be treated with respect. I have not had any issues with the content from anyone he has teamed up with.

I agree with BishopDon and I only let my son play when I can be around to monitor the play because it is online. I don't stand over him and watch every word typed, but I make sure I am in the area and check his progress once in a while.

I do think that the more someone is exposed to violence, it just becomes more acceptable. That is why I try to monitor what my kids are watching and talk about those issues as well.

Now, before anyone gets upset, I am not the type of person that won't let my kids watch Bugs Bunny because of the violence. I grew up on cartoon violence. But I think many of the images today are much more graphic and real looking. Grand Theft Auto is a prime example. That is not a game I want my kids playing.

I appreciate all the comments and I believe I will wait until I can try the CoV myself before I purchase the game. For now my family will continue to patrol Paragon City doing good.

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11/08/05 06:41

RonJ73

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

I'll have to go with the "14+" idea here too. If I had kids, I wouldn't want them playing CoV until I felt they were old enough to have established a fairly firm set of morals and can realize that the game is, exactly that, a game.

As far as HOW evil CoV is, I would quote Dr Evil on this one, "It's the Diet Coke of Evil...just 1 calorie, not evil enough!"

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11/08/05 07:41

gec72

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

QUOTE

The line "but if your kids don't read the story lines (or any of the missions given to you) then you should be fine" really stands out for me, as this would apply to my son, who watched me play, wanted to create a character himself, and then got a HUUUUGE case of altitis (I would guess he has more toons than me now - Ice Cole, Fire Cole, Stone ColeT, Rocket Cole, Electric Cole, Sword Cole, Speeding Cole - "no, he can't be red and yellow with the little things on his head...just trust me, he can't" - red cole, Green Cole, silver cole, Boulder Cole...even a few others I can't remember there are so many).

Now, my son is only 5 1/2. So how do I defend this? Well, for one, he *doesn't* grasp any of the overall story arcs, either in CoH or CoV (and my wife isn't thrilled with CoV, but my son would have raised cain if we told him he couldn't play...as soon as he saw the City of Villains logo, he wanted to play it), because he can't really read them. To him, yes, you're a "bad guy", but I don't think he gets the real connotation. He's a bad guy in the sense that Evil Emperor Zurg is a bad guy, if he even thinks it out that far. I also always try to correct him when he says he is going to "kill" these bad buys (he still is on the CoH side of things much more, because he is familiar with the environment of Kings Row, Galaxy City, etc) - "no no, you're arresting them". Once he even told me "Daaaaadddy, it's just a game". So he seems to have a pretty good grasp on that (he is a fairly smart kid).

It is certainly better than some alternatives...the father of a family across the street (2 girls, 2 boys, he plays with the boys who are 6 and 7) asked me one day if my son was allowed to play first person shooters. Um, no. There is a fairly good difference between throwing a snowball at a bad guy and pumping him full of bullets and watching his head explode (which apparently he has no problem with...though this is the same family where Spongebob and the Rugrats are off limits - go figure).

What I've actually been surprised at is how CoH has actually been a fairly good learning tool for my son. I know that may sound warped...but from navigation, he has begun to grasp distance (to a destination), how to navigate the map, and how to understand the compass. He can read the splash screens for Kings Row, Steel Canyon, The Hollows, Perez Park, Galaxy City, Atlas Park, etc. He can now read many of the contact names, and a *lot* of the mob names (he can distinguish Gravedigger Slammer from Gravedigger Slicer from Gravedigger Chopper, he can identify "Vortex Cor Leonis Marksman" (!), about all of the clockwork, etc).

So many might think that I'm crazy, but with a little guidance and supervision, I don't have that much of a problem with my son playing the game. But that's knowing my son - if he had a different makeup, it might be a different story.

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11/08/05 08:41

BishopDon

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

Hey Gec...and this is one reason that I do believe that kids should be allowed to play video games in the first place. It's a fun way to help them with their memory, coordination and give them a good (or at least decent) sense of how to navigate a PC.

My son also has good skills when it comes to playing video games and he's been this way for years (I let him play the DragonballZ games and things on that nature all the time). However, it's some things that I just won't let him be exposed to....GTA or any of the other real life brutality games.

CoH is the first MMO that he has played and I just want him to have the best experience with the game, which is why I don't seclude him from the other players. Like it was mentioned before, I try to guide and explain things to him if they do come up (and he plays with the profanity sensor on).

This game can actually teach you a lot of RL experiences in communications. With the corporate world being so remote now, learning how to communicate via email/IM is crucial, both in sending and receiving. I want him to experience that with this game. That is the reason that I monitor his play and will keep him to CoH for now, until he progresses a little further with the content and gets a handle on the basics per say.

11/08/05 08:54

gec72

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

Agreed that they can be valuable Bishop. My son has always shown aptitude with the computer too, he started figuring out how the mouse worked before he was three, and was playing a number of educational games soonafter - Clifford, Caillou, Reader Rabbit, Dora, etc. I was amazed at how quickly kids can pick these concepts up (I marvel at how some of his friends can play Mario Sunshine).

I am a lot more comfortable with CoH than CoV, but with how he plays, he doesn't get very far with CoV. He usually plays in breakout (where you're largely fighting inmates) and then goes onto something else...only to play his "main" in CoH next time - much easier because he has superjump - or to just roll another toon just to see what some of the other powers are. So the most he really does in CoV is fight some inmates or some snakes. Or even Skulls, which he's familiar with anyway. So he's still fighting the "bad guys" really.

As for communication...he can't really type or read what others are typing, so he can't communicate or team (though he has tried to type "hi" locally). I have him turn down every invite, and put a disclaimer in his LFT description (yet people *still* try to invite him). I think the ideal to foster in-game communication (and this would obviously be down the road) would be to get another account so I could play with him if it ever came to that. My guess is that he will get tired of the game before he's able to do that though.

Oh, another big thing that he likes to do is just to hang around the trainer sometimes and check out other heroes, looking at their costumes and asking my wife or me what their names are. Now if only people could stop coming up with names like "SatanicVibrator"...

11/08/05 09:08

CaptFortuitous

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

I think the fact that you are concerned says a lot. Your children are protected in some ways from any content by the fact that you are there and care. I would say this however, if you decide that they shouldn't play CoV I would consider not playing yourself either only because I've never believed in the "Do as I say, not as I do". I really doubt the game contains anything bad and depending on a childs age, I think role playing can be seperated from reality. People have loved to blame media for problems in youth for many, many years. Good parenting, which I believe you are demonstrating here, is a counter to any media influence IMHO. Whatever you decide, I believe you will make a good decision and will continue to monitor your children in all of thier activities.

11/08/05 09:16

swissarmy68

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Re: Question about the concept of the game

QUOTE

I would say this however, if you decide that they shouldn't play CoV I would consider not playing yourself either only because I've never believed in the "Do as I say, not as I do".

I agree with you and that is the reason I am not going to get the game yet. First, I would want to play it to check for content. Second, at 12 years old he wants to start gaining freedom from being a little kid. I have given him my password to log onto CoH, as long as he asks for permission first. As long as he is responsible while online he can keep that privilage. To get CoV and tell him he can't play it would only hurt that feeling of independence that he is gaining.

This is the main reason why I am not getting the game yet. Like I said I will need to play it before I decide if it is something I want him to play at his age.

Very good observations from everyone.

Again, that is why I enjoy this site so much. I told my wife that if I had posted this to the main site, I would have been torn apart by the people. I appreciate you all giving your opinions, but understanding each parent is responsible for raising their kids.

Thanks again.

Swiss

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11/08/05 09:55

Agent Mia Mioshi

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RE: Question about the concept of the game

QUOTE

Okay I play both games and atually started with COV hten went to COH. COV in my opinion is really harmless.. Just like COH there is no blood or gore (actually the gorist thing I've seen on either site is the Vahzilok cadavers and there are a lot more of them on COH than COV). Yes as a Villianess I rob banks, I kidnap people, and I steal things but isn't that what bad guys do? I'm up to lvel 42 with my main character and have completed more than 25 story arcs and haven't found one that I'd deem truly unfit for teens (I let my 11 year old play but she enjoys creating characters more than actually playing them so its pretty safe)

Now as for language and content .. Both sites have their bad moments depending on when your on and who you are dealing with. My absolute worst experience actually happened on COH and I left for a long time after words to avoid the individual (the character I was playing is long gone as well). I teamed my scrapper with a like level defender and we started running missions. After a few we started chatting between fights and he seemed very friendly. Then it got way too friendly .... He blurted out that he'd like to see me (not my character but me naked). He became very sexual and I quickly got very uncomfortable and signed off. he was probably some low teen with no girlfriend and got excited looking at my female toon (although for the life of me I don't know why .. she was dressed in simple black tights with a utility belt .. I was going for a SWAT Team look). His sudden and very overt senual comment took me by suprise, the frightened me a bit (Like I said my 11 year old DAUGHTER plays this game and she loves COH and plays it much more than COV).

My point ... COV the game is fine. It's almost a mirror of COH only you are playing on the other side. Every battle has another side and in the comic what fun would Batman be without Joker or thr Riddler? Superman without Lex Luthor? Kids are not stupid they know its a game and I seriously doubt you'll find them longing to go rob a bank or take on a gang of Hellions after playing. My concern is the players comments and you get plenty of foul amd off color remarks on both sides Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. Best I can suggest is just what has already been suiggested .. I don't let my daughter play without me beside her and if the conversation gets foul ... Mommmy takes contol of the character, informs the offender that now the 40+ mom is online not the 11 year old child, and one more comment like that and I'll submit a report to management. LOL 9 times out of 10 that person suddenly logs off Enjoy the games both of them.

08/31/06 23:19

Darkdragon405

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RE: Question about the concept of the game

I realize that this is like 2 years too late, but here's my two cents.

In CoV, you beat up on fellow baddies and "retire" corrupt "police" and "Longbow"(a lot)

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08/29/08 09:10

RonJ73

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RE: Question about the concept of the game

Well...you also beat up on non-corrupt police as well. For kids, I'd stick with Heroes. Even then, I firmly believe in the T+ rating. There's too much of an unsavory element with the playerbase to allow pre-teens, in my opinion.

08/29/08 13:12

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