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Xaviak
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| Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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I originally posted this on the GW side but CoH Forums seem quite active too so I thought I might post this over here too to hear your opinions. I'm not sure though how much there's age discrimination in CoH though but anyways. :P
Well it's quite common and I think we've all ran into Age racism in MMORPGS.
Everyone's always looking down at players between the age cap of 0-17
Why does it occur and why is it always the "kids" who get the blame?
Here's my theory:
At this age, people start to rebel and they badly want to stand out as being "cooler" than others. No one wants to really admit they're nerds so they have to "prove" this by abusing other players and their habits in order to get the feeling that they are themselves normal. Nerds are always the center of jokes and no one wants to be one when you're a teenager.
-"Go out and get a life!" Anyone ever heard of that?
Well, going out and getting a life can be done in communities in Internet too. What's the difference if you go out and have a conversation with people and having a conversation at forums or in-game? The fact that outside there's fresh air? Well that really doesn't affect the conversation.
The reason why kids are usually the ones who act like this is because adults don't have that much to prove to others of their age.
Well I'm no adult yet so I don't know for sure but my understanding is that when you're a teenager there's a certain hierarchy and to be in higher in that hieracrhy, the less nerd you have to be. And everyone's wants to climp up the ladders. :P
But in adulthood this hierarchy disappears might I say?
Heh, this is only my thoery and please post if you have something to comment or if you disagree. :P
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| 06/26/06 16:59 |
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Sapphire_Gypsy
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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I hate to say it but, in my experience at least, the hierarchy doesn't go away. It seems to because we tend toward careers where there are others like us. Nerds (not all mind you) tend towards "nerdier" pursuits like the computer industry.
I know they still exist because I, being a nerd myself, actually managed to avoid the 'nerdier' pursuits and have entered the 'brain' at school's territory.
Now mind you in high school I never would have told you I was a nerd. But after having an English teacher (that's right a teacher) tell you you need to tone down the "nerdiness" of a paper and call you a computer geek.... well it kinda shatters any illusions about yourself you might have had.
I was a nerd, a brain, and one of those loathed drama kids... but I hung out with almost everyone because I went to a small school, the cliques were forced to be a lot closer than I'm sure they wanted to be. :)
Ok back to the thought at hand. They don't dissapear, I wish they did. Heck last month, when I was getting excited for Superman and I mentioned it to a co-worker she looked at me and said, "you really are a nerd, aren't you?" But that's ok cause I never really liked her much anyway. ;) The point is I worked somewhere with 7 other people.... there was no room for a clique, but guess what there was one and I was never once invited to be a part of it.
As for it in games.... well that's another story. I think if you act like a kid, you'll get treated like a kid. I team with a guy that until recently I thought he was a college kid. Why, because of his behavior.
Heck I could go into a random PUG and act like a little kid and have them call me all kinds of things.
I think games strip things down to the bare minimum. When push comes down to shove, in the real world people judge you by what you say and what you do, not so much who you're wearing, like it was at my high school. But you're never going to get rid of the cliques, they just change form.
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| 06/26/06 17:20 |
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Xaviak
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| QUOTE | I hate to say it but, in my experience at least, the hierarchy doesn't go away. It seems to because we tend toward careers where there are others like us.
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Heh, that's the same reply I got over at the GW side too. :P
Thanks for taking the time to answer! ^^
EDIT: Oh and don't mind me. I'm pretty much a nerd but I'm the bad type of a nerd: I hang out on the comp. all day but my brain's aren't that big! :D
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 06/26/06 17:28 |
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Xolquar
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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Yeah, I'm not saying Im not a nerd (That would be a lie), but I do think that I dont act like the typical teenager online. I dont speak AOL or leet, I use full sentences and capitalize if I remember. Just thought Id through out the fact that not all teenagers are part of the annoying "r j00 h3alorz lol?" crowd
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| 06/26/06 17:58 |
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VinceVoltage
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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First off, I've moved this topic to the "Rant and Rave" section since I have a feeling some people will want to voice their opinions rather strongly and this could turn into a nice debate.
Secondly...| QUOTE | | Everyone's always looking down at players between the age cap of 0-17 |
Who's playing at age 0? Or even under 10, really? I mean, I've seen some REALLY young people play games like Counterstrike where its just aim and click, really. But for games like CoH, WoW, GW...anything under 10 is really a bit young to include in even the discussions since under 10 years of age would more than likely constitute less than 1% of all gamers.
Next, I think kids get a bad rep in the games because of the ones who have spoiled it for others. Typically in a game, the troublemakers are teenagers and young kids. Do you think someone who pays 15 dollars per month (for CoH...more expensive for most other games) is going to go around making all sorts of trouble and wasting their time on KSing, name-calling, and causing trouble in general? I highly doubt it. The older people in the gaming community play the game to relax after a long day of work and have fun. The last thing they want is to start an arguement or cause trouble unnecessarily. When mommy and daddy are footing the bill, there's no (or little) worry about cancellation of accounts and waste of subscription fees.
Futhermore, teenagers are going through a rebellious phase in their life. No other creature in this world stays with its parents for so long as humans. Scientifically speaking, we are capable of fending for ourselves at the age of 13. So what do we do? We clash with our parents. We disagree with them. We have a general sense of superiority because the world finally begins to fall into place for us. Our minds tell us that we're better than everyone else. And naturally, this creates conflict; between other teens, between teens and younger kids, and between kids and adults, whom the wish to rebel against (possibly to "prove their worth").
Also, I believe that a lot of the MMORPG community consists of middle & upper class people, especially the younger gamers. I'm not discriminating against anyone or putting anyone down, but think about what's needed to play most MMORPGs today: a fast computer with a high-end graphics card, a high-speed internet connection, costly subscription fees, and a good amount of free time (or time that you'd be willing to sacrifice on a game that may become obsolete or get shut down at any time). Granted, you don't need DSL or Cable internet or the highest graphics card, but it makes for a very slow going sometimes without them (trust me...).
Generally speaking though, I think that kids get a bad rep not because they're scientifically prone to rebelling, but because they're just at the age where they feel that arguing is the best way to prove a point, make a statement, stand out in the community, or *insert whatever item you feel can be blamed for the actions of today's teenagers here*. The fact of the matter is that it usually is a kid (anyone under 18) that starts crap in the game. Most (and I do mean most, not all) adults are mature enough and secure enough with their manliness or dominance or whatever be it to simply hit "/ignore playername" or walk/fly/superjump/teleport/superspeed away.
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| 06/26/06 18:04 |
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Midnight_Rook
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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This is taken from my obervations thoughout my 22 years. (Or however long I became quite coherent of how society behaves)
Unfortunately age discrimination is just going to happen. Not just in MMOs but in every walks of life.
Why does this happen in MMOs though? Because the events from outside the gaming world are the influence. The younger generation, and even my own, are now doing things that just shock and confuse many folk. And those who are younger than other players will automatically have that incline to climb to prove they are not incompetent. Some succeed and some fail.
At least, that's my theory.
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| 06/26/06 18:08 |
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Xaviak
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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Yay thanks for the time & replies guys! ^^
Any more opinions?
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| 06/26/06 18:10 |
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VinceVoltage
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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Here's a link to a very cool site where a bunch of research is being done about video games. I used this in my English paper last year and it's still going strong. Its very cool and helpful for understanding a lot.
The Daedalus Project
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| 06/26/06 18:14 |
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Xaviak
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | Here's a link to a very cool site where a bunch of research is being done about video games. I used this in my English paper last year and it's still going strong. Its very cool and helpful for understanding a lot.
The Daedalus Project |
O.o nice one!
AmpWoW<-- Check it out if you need to find something. ^^
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| 06/26/06 18:17 |
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Xaviak
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | Everyone's always looking down at players between the age cap of 0-17
Who's playing at age 0? Or even under 10, really? I mean, I've seen some REALLY young people play games like Counterstrike where its just aim and click, really. But for games like CoH, WoW, GW...anything under 10 is really a bit young to include in even the discussions since under 10 years of age would more than likely constitute less than 1% of all gamers.
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I did the age cap like that because I thought it would be kinda stupid to start it from somewhere in between like from 10+ higher or something like that. :P
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 06/26/06 18:23 |
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VinceVoltage
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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I see your point. Maybe you should say "17 and under" next time. It makes more sense than "0-17." Just a suggestion. (Works better on papers too. Haha)
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| 06/26/06 18:25 |
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Xaviak
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | I see your point. Maybe you should say "17 and under" next time. It makes more sense than "0-17." Just a suggestion. (Works better on papers too. Haha) |
I'll keep that in mind. ;)
Though I'm quite an impulsive when it comes to writing posts. I just put the stuff in there as it comes to my mind.
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| 06/26/06 18:30 |
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VinceVoltage
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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No worries. I do the same thing most of the time. I was actually gonna quote statistics and facts in mine, but I decided to keep it casual and from me alone this time. But beware for next time! Mwahaha!
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| 06/26/06 18:31 |
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lenway
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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I was in TC for awhile and they accept all age groups and races.
Whenever I got on vent with them I heard all sorts of voices and accents, and they were from all around the world.
So the people who are different from them are just trying to sound safisticated to get attention, which is not neccesary in a video game.
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| 06/26/06 18:32 |
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Madclergy
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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If a kid wants to get respect, then he needs to play normal. I have met a lot of teenagers and all they are worried about it getting on the game, getting the uberz 1337 phat lewt and kicking everyone elses butts. Why? Peer Pressure mind you, if you are going to spend 4 hours behind a computer screen in highschool, your friends better do the same thing or you better have some interesting stories about how you messed with people online, otherwise you will be taken as a nerd.
Age Disclosure: If you are a kid playing the game, and don't wish to be taken into the stereotype of a 14 year old player
1. Don't act like a 14 year old player, act you have been playing the game for 14 years :) And have the knowledge to accompany that. This means if you don't know something, don't tell someoone how it is, just sit quiet or refer the person asking to someone you think might know the question.
2. Don't go around doing silly things that you know irritate people, i.e Spamming the same message continously, or griefing, or any of the other plethra of things that are publically banned.
These are the ways I have stayed atop the stereotypes for my age group *as I fall into the 18 and under age group* and have a lot of players tell me they thought I was really older than what I am. Even had one guy think that I had already been through college and was now on my career, he mentioned the age 34 and I cringed :)
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| 07/04/06 07:36 |
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bigspeer
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | annoying "r j00 h3alorz lol?" crowd |
what does that even mean?
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| 07/04/06 09:36 |
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Ion_Paragon
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | annoying "r j00 h3alorz lol?" crowd |
what does that even mean? |
I think it means "are you healer laugh?"
I'm not sure though.
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| 07/04/06 10:23 |
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singularity
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | Yeah, I'm not saying Im not a nerd (That would be a lie), but I do think that I dont act like the typical teenager online. I dont speak AOL or leet, I use full sentences and capitalize if I remember. Just thought Id through out the fact that not all teenagers are part of the annoying "r j00 h3alorz lol?" crowd |
Yep, Xol and I are in the same boat. I was never really age discriminated against, though people did think I was "annoying" at times. I don't know if that was them age discrimating, or if that was just me being anxty.
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| 07/04/06 16:54 |
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Jorden_Yen
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | I originally posted this on the GW side but CoH Forums seem quite active too so I thought I might post this over here too to hear your opinions. I'm not sure though how much there's age discrimination in CoH though but anyways. :P
Well it's quite common and I think we've all ran into Age racism in MMORPGS.
Everyone's always looking down at players between the age cap of 0-17
Why does it occur and why is it always the "kids" who get the blame?
Here's my theory:
At this age, people start to rebel and they badly want to stand out as being "cooler" than others. No one wants to really admit they're nerds so they have to "prove" this by abusing other players and their habits in order to get the feeling that they are themselves normal. Nerds are always the center of jokes and no one wants to be one when you're a teenager.
-"Go out and get a life!" Anyone ever heard of that?
Well, going out and getting a life can be done in communities in Internet too. What's the difference if you go out and have a conversation with people and having a conversation at forums or in-game? The fact that outside there's fresh air? Well that really doesn't affect the conversation.
The reason why kids are usually the ones who act like this is because adults don't have that much to prove to others of their age.
Well I'm no adult yet so I don't know for sure but my understanding is that when you're a teenager there's a certain hierarchy and to be in higher in that hieracrhy, the less nerd you have to be. And everyone's wants to climp up the ladders. :P
But in adulthood this hierarchy disappears might I say?
Heh, this is only my thoery and please post if you have something to comment or if you disagree. :P |
I don't really see age discrimination in CoH. First of all, how would you know their age? Second, if someone's a crappy player, my first thought is "what a crappy player" not, oh! They must be a kid".
However, sometimes the immaturity reeks through the internet connection from the way people play. Even then, I can't know if they're young and immature or old and immature.
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| 07/06/06 11:10 |
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Delphon
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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This may be some deep waters but, Hmmm - here it goes...
I would have to say there is Maturity and Behavior segregation...not age discrimination. Here's why?
1. Only the player defines how the other people in the MMORPG community see you - I do not know your age, sex, nationality, or native language - If I form the opinion that I do not want to play this game with you, it was from your actions and statements alone - nothing else. I rarely listen to others who tell me they think this or that of someone.
2. I like most players treat everyone on a person by person basis - if someone acts immature to an unacceptable point and mild attempts to alter their behavior fail I either "kick" them or "quit" depending on the structure of the team. I am not rude to them in any way but will refuse teaming with them again. Behavior should suit the setting.
3. I don't consider it discrimination as much as segregation as I will avoid playing with people who are severly immature or inconsiderate - but I do not make any effort to remove their right to play as they see fit, I only remove myself from their aura ;-)
4. If someone is violating a rule, law, guideline, or EULA then I feel treating them differently is appropriate. It is not discriminatory if I won't sit by a smoker if there are other places to sit. But, I don't expect them to stop smoking if I visit a place where it is allowed. If in a place where smoking is not allowed I will speak my piece and stand my ground that they should stop.
5. I also have an upper level where I think I am too fun to play with people that are hard core XP manufacturers. I really have no interest in Grinding for a few hours a day - I play with people that I find it fun to play with. I have at least one behavior or technical oops in almost every day of play. If that's just too much for someone else - so be it!
In summary - I play with people that for the most part behave and play like I do - if they do not I choose not to play with them. This is not discriminatory or judgemental it just makes the other person realize that the whole world may not love them for who they are or how they behave.
Del
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| 07/06/06 12:08 |
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MightySmiter
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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yeah, ive been discriminated against because of my age. its stupid. my age has nothing to do with my abilities. i hate people that think because im only 16 i have no experience and i suck at everything. well, first off that is tottally wrong. ive teamed with an 11 year old in CoH, and he is a better player that 95% of what is out there. IMO, descriminating based of age is wrong, but i do descrimminate based on maturity level. immature people suck.
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| 07/06/06 12:10 |
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Jorden_Yen
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | yeah, ive been discriminated against because of my age. its stupid. my age has nothing to do with my abilities. i hate people that think because im only 16 i have no experience and i suck at everything. well, first off that is tottally wrong. ive teamed with an 11 year old in CoH, and he is a better player that 95% of what is out there. IMO, descriminating based of age is wrong, but i do descrimminate based on maturity level. immature people suck. |
How do they know how old you are?
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My lousy name for the comic that I did which can be found here CoH @ JeremyDuffy.com
My favorite guide - Advanced Costuming. How to work your costume into your character's theme, story, and playstyle.
Jordan Yen 50 Dark/Dark/Dark Defender
Doctor Kev 50 Necro/Dark Mastermind
Grave Sally 50 Rad/Kin Corruptor (slowest combo in existance)
Mudnuke 42 Earth/Rad Controller
Shazel 38 Fire/fire/fire blaster
Screaming Gale 38 Storm/Sonic Defender
Jordan Yin 38 Warshade, Jordan Yang 35 Peacebringer
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| 07/06/06 12:21 |
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Thundarpants
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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Well after leading an SG for a while I've come to the conclusion that it's not always the age of the player, but like many have said, the maturity of the player.
I have teenagers as members of my SG that act more adult than the 30-40 crowd. It really depends on the person.
What I have seen/heard from the teen players I've associated with:
At age 25 or so I figured out that every other word doesn't have to be F***. I can cuss all I want now. The thrill is gone. Some younger players are just hard to communicate with on features like Ventrillo and Teamspeak.
If I'm wrong or don't know for sure I'll admit it. Some discussions get overly heated over incosequential power stats that'll change the next issue anyhow. More of the younger players have emotion control issues, but that's definately not confined to them.
I've played with people all night long thinking I'm playing with someone my age range, and played with 30+ aged players and thought "When is puberty going to end for this guy!?". There are definately a few players that surprised me when they admitted their age. I would have thought Bigspeer was a lot older. Still, it's hard to tell here. We have a more mature posting crowd.
There are some times that we do discriminate though. One of our hobby SG's is a group of villains that are basically porn stars. Although we do have teenagers in the SG, we don't think their parents would like them listening in, or reading the chat that goes on in those teams. It gets pretty racey. It's all a lot of big talk, but it gets pretty funny most nights. Something you wouldn't want your 14 year old child interacting with though....
Younger players are some of the best ones out there. They still learn at a faster rate because most of them are still in school and are geared up for the absorbsion of knowledge. They learn this stuff way faster than I did. They make some of the best references for power utilization.
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| 07/06/06 12:43 |
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MightySmiter
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | yeah, ive been discriminated against because of my age. its stupid. my age has nothing to do with my abilities. i hate people that think because im only 16 i have no experience and i suck at everything. well, first off that is tottally wrong. ive teamed with an 11 year old in CoH, and he is a better player that 95% of what is out there. IMO, descriminating based of age is wrong, but i do descrimminate based on maturity level. immature people suck. |
How do they know how old you are? |
ive asked people there age, and ive been asked. i dont know why we ask, but it must be curiousity
COH GUARDIAN
MightySmiter dark/dark/body scrapper lvl 50
-Member of Protectors of Paragon City
PhantomPrincess ill/rad/fire controller lvl 50
-Member of The Golden Council
WoW Runetotem (retired)
Belain lvl 70 Human Paladin
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| 07/06/06 12:56 |
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Delphon
Posts: 404
Joined: 08/02/2005
Credibility: 1918 pts
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | annoying "r j00 h3alorz lol?" crowd |
what does that even mean? |
Quoted from Big Spear
Well looking this over its clearly a foreign language. It always helps to try and speak the native language of those you meet so if you run into this in thr field Big, try introducing you self accordingly.
English: Big Spear (leroy)
French: Grande Lance
Italian: Germoglio Grande (giant germ)
Spanish: Lanza Grande
German: Grosse Stange (gross stranger??)
Portuguese: Lança Grande
Russian: Большое Копье
Then explain your ignorance of their language (possibly from occupation related head injury) but that you have great skills in aggravating large groups of people simultaneously while taking quite a beating.
I hope this helps, Delphon
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| 07/06/06 13:00 |
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jinxycat
Posts: 278
Joined: 08/21/2005
Credibility: 380 pts
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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im a nerd and i dont care who knows it, that being said you wouldnt think i was a nerd until you got to know me and i dont broardcast it either, but being called a nerd for looking forward to superman is just wrong, assuming you are from america, what is america comming to really. its so different here in the uk i dont know anyone who would call me a nerd for looking forward to superman.
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| 07/06/06 13:02 |
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Thundarpants
Posts: 1248
Joined: 12/18/2004
Credibility: 1924 pts
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | im a nerd and i dont care who knows it, that being said you wouldnt think i was a nerd until you got to know me and i dont broardcast it either, but being called a nerd for looking forward to superman is just wrong, assuming you are from america, what is america comming to really. its so different here in the uk i dont know anyone who would call me a nerd for looking forward to superman. |
Where did that come from Jinxy? I'd have to say we all qualify as nerds. Here we are posting on a super hero game forum section. I think that's a given. I dub thee nerds all around if your posting or lurking here at all. (The lurkers really want to be nerds, they just don't want anyone to know... :P)
I applaud your nerdlieness. To be amped about Superman is to be amped about truth justice and the American way! (And yes it's the American way. Do not sully my comics with this Politically Correct BS that the world is drowning in.) Even if you're not American, your stoked about the positive things that being an American means.
Looks like this was meant for another post, but there's nothing to fret about being anxious to see Superman.
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| 07/06/06 13:25 |
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Electro
Posts: 1249
Joined: 04/07/2005
Credibility: 2644 pts
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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Well, I'd say we all discriminate to some extent. We make judgements about other players that may or may not be related to age, and decide whether to keep playing with them, or whether to even play with them ever again (/ignore).
Personnally, I look at the overall teaming experience. Was the person a good player? Did we have good conversation? Were they annoying? Did they behave immaturely? None of these traits are necessarily related to chronological age.
There have been a few other threads recently, along the lines of introducing our real selves, that invite us to disclose our age. I am continually surprised at how many of us are in our 30's. I would venture to say that the average age of the GameAmp Alliance is 30! Is that typical of an MMORPG? Maybe it's just typical of this website? I don't know.
I think the real discriminatory factor is not age, but maturity. Generally, people like to hang out with others that are somewhat like themselves.
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| 07/06/06 13:44 |
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Jorden_Yen
Posts: 877
Joined: 07/26/2005
Credibility: 1061 pts
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | I think the real discriminatory factor is not age, but maturity. Generally, people like to hang out with others that are somewhat like themselves. |
/signed
/signed
/signed
I'm 29 :)
Jordan's Town
My lousy name for the comic that I did which can be found here CoH @ JeremyDuffy.com
My favorite guide - Advanced Costuming. How to work your costume into your character's theme, story, and playstyle.
Jordan Yen 50 Dark/Dark/Dark Defender
Doctor Kev 50 Necro/Dark Mastermind
Grave Sally 50 Rad/Kin Corruptor (slowest combo in existance)
Mudnuke 42 Earth/Rad Controller
Shazel 38 Fire/fire/fire blaster
Screaming Gale 38 Storm/Sonic Defender
Jordan Yin 38 Warshade, Jordan Yang 35 Peacebringer
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| 07/06/06 13:50 |
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Delphon
Posts: 404
Joined: 08/02/2005
Credibility: 1918 pts
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| RE: Age Discrimination in MMORPGs |
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| QUOTE | | QUOTE | | I think the real discriminatory factor is not age, but maturity. Generally, people like to hang out with others that are somewhat like themselves. |
/signed
/signed
/signed
I'm 29 :) |
you don't look a day over 12!
(in your avatar)
Del
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| 07/06/06 14:05 |
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