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Thundarpants
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OK, I'm not one to gripe about game changes, I'd rather just adapt and move on, but there comes a point when there is no adapting possible.
I just ran the Synapse TF last night. The missions were fine, but when we got the Babbage ambush, there was no way I could see that level 20 toons could EVER have taken him down. We called in all of our online SG resources and high DPS players and it made no difference at all. We had the 8 toon TF team, and two more 8 toon teams helping. One of ours, and one from announcing it to the server that we needed help.
That's 24 toons out there tearing Babbage up. Even after the 50's showed up and were actually able to land a few punches he actually took some noticeable damage, and then simply regen'd it all back.
Then the Rad we had been looking for finally showed, and then 25+ toons could actually take him.
It just seems to be total BS that there is a part of this TF that is physically impossible for the TF team to complete. We didn't even get the badge because we could not do more than 10% of the damage.
This got me to thinking. What about Numina? What about the Eden trial? Kinda gets me steamed that you now HAVE to bring a Rad toon along to complete these TF's. So far I've been able to adapt to all of the nerfs and whatnot that have hit my toons with barely a flinch.
Having no possible way to adapt to this change is extreemly aggrivating to me.
Being forced to have a certain type of power set in a mission is also an aggrivation. Not that I dislike the Radiation set. I'm going to roll an Illusion/Rad Troller this weekend just to thumb my nose at the development team again. I simply dislike being put in a position where I have to force a teammate to bring a particular toon to an event. I prefer to let my friends bring what they want, as opposed to bring what they have to. Not everyone likes to run a Radiation toon like i would.
We can usually run with whatever good combo we put together. A little DPS, some healing, a smattering of control(Tanking is a method of crowd control IMO by the way). Nothing exact, but that basic formula should handle every situation in the game. You need a little better Tank for Nems and Malta, you can handle Carnies with a heavily laden Troller team and some Ranged DPS. You get the idea, not a cookie cutter team line up, just an properly balanced one.
I see the need for a community event like a Hami Raid. But having an event this hard below the level 20 toon cap is just stupid.
If you are planning to run Synapse, be prepared to just leave Babbage in the zone and head to the last mish. That is unless you have lots of friends online, and can get the server to back you up like happened last night.
There.......RANT DONE! I just had to get it out.
Now, on a positive note about the event: Player assistance.
What I was impressed with was the assistance we got on Liberty when this took place. Obviously we were not even denting Babbage, so we started calling for help. In TWWP chat at first of course, then coalition. Our friends dropped everything to help us. Unfortunately, it was not enough.....Then the call went out to the whole server. We sent scouts out to different zones and started requesting help. Of the players that were on that late, they started pouring in.
Now when I noted that "25+ toons could actually take him" I really mean a BIG +! When it was all said and done, we must have had at least 5 full teams kicking his butt. The funny thing is, the Rad didn't show up till late, so you can imagine that gaggle of toons trying in vane to do this. Man they worked their butts off for a group of people they didn't even know! Knowing full well that they probably wouldn't get the badge.
I might be ticked at the devs right now, but I love the Liberty crew! Y'all are AWESOME!
Anyone else having hell with Giant Monsters right now? Any other ways to beat these without having a Rad or Shivan pet?
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| 07/19/06 12:54 |
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Electro
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Wow! That really stinks that Babbage is part of the TF, yet requires multi-team assistance to bring him down.
I remember reading that the monsters and AV's were buffed for 3 reasons: 1) encourage players to use the Radiation powersets, 2) encourage use of the Shivan pets, and 3) encourage use of the Warburg nuke. The original buff was obviously way too much, but even the scaled-back version we have now is quite challenging.
We did the Citadel TF a week or 2 ago and the AV (Vandal?) was really kicking our butts. Granted, it was a pick-up group doing the TF and we were not the most organized, but still. It took the assistance of summoned Shivans and Warwolves to finally beat him.
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| 07/19/06 13:04 |
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thejeni
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So the "fix" to the regen didn't help? I was afriad of that. I thought they were going to roll the GMs back to what they were before I7?
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| 07/19/06 13:14 |
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Thundarpants
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| QUOTE | | So the "fix" to the regen didn't help? I was afriad of that. I thought they were going to roll the GMs back to what they were before I7? |
Well they did do a rollback, just not to pre-I7 levels. The fact that any of the GMs needed to be more uber was never needed. It's just the devs FORCING us to play the game their way again.
"We'll just make it immposible to do this without certain powers in the team"
What I see as the major problem with this is, what about the Fire/Kin that needs a team? What about the Ice/Storm? When you make it that they are not effective for the mission, or an important part of it, it will hamper their ability to get a team. Teams only need so many Trollers. At this point, if you are not Rad, you are the second choice, and may get passed over.
It is nice to get a Rad/Rad Defender, but this change isn't going to make teaming for Defenders better, just those who choose Rad/???.
I do believe that Giant monsters should be a pain....but not imposible. I also don't think every GM needs to be ultra uber. They should scale to the level of the content. Babbage is part of the level 15-20 content. He is currently untouchable by those levels. He should be a pain in the butt, but not impossible for a well rounded 8 hero team. I guess it's even more frustrating when they have this GM attached to this TF specifically. If he is still going to be a part of this, then his spawn for the TF specifically should be scaled appropriately. Let the version in Faultline be the insanely hard one to kill.
One important thing to note for everyone.....You can just skip him. If your team is not going to have the slightest chance to beat him or get the badge....leave him and head to the last mish. We were lucky to get so much help. Otherwise we would have had no choice.
I know it's not cool to leave a spawn like this on the map. But what choice do you have if the cavalry doesn't come? Anounce it in Broadcast as a warning, and on the local badge hunters channel, then take off. He doesn't deal a lot of damage, He just doesn't take any either.
Now for Numina and the Eden Trial. Better take a Rad, there's no help comin and no way to complete the event without them.
I know for a fact that until they change this somehow, I'll never get close to Lusca again. She used to wipe out 3-4 level 50 teams regularly before. If not, still killed a lot of us. I'm not sure she would be beatable with anything short of a Hami Raid event any longer.
They did promote one thing. Everyone is dusting off their Radition toons, and those who did not have one before will be rolling them up....like me. Soon the servers will be flooded with Radiation toons and the nerfs will start flying. There is a reason you don't see them a lot any more. They make the game so freakin easy, that the experienced players have shelved them for more challenging toons.
Well if the devs want more Radiation....they'll get it. We in TWWP shall begin flooding the server on Liberty this weekend with the Double EXP event. Everyone get ready to be sick of the color green!
*EDIT* Oh yeah, we did have a warburg nuke.......When executed by the level 20 auto exemp'd character, it made the life bar wiggle a little. Could we get about 150,000 of them stacked up?
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
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| 07/19/06 13:41 |
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gec72
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I did Synapse a couple weeks ago, on a team that turned out to include one of Warron Peace's toons. :) We likewise had no chance at Babbage, and were basically treading water until a good deal of help arrived. Eventually beat him.
I *think* when he spawned, our next mission (Clock King) had already popped up...so I believe we could have moved on without defeating Babbage. Not very clean, that way. But it will work I think.
[now that I read more closely, this has already been stated...just reconfirming then I suppose]
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
Virtue
Lvl 50 Red Menacer BS/Regen Scrapper
Lvl 33 Blue-Agave Mind/Kin Controller
Lvl 28 Oro Liquido INV/EM Tanker
Lvl 21 Lady Elixir Emp/Psi Defender
Lvl 16 Astrasmash Grav/Storm Controller
Lvl 14 Emma's Dolly MA/Dark Scrapper
Lvl 7 Black Jacobin Sonic/Sonic Defender
Guardian
Lvl 11 Orange Laser FF/Energy Defender (Laser Corps)
Lvl 7 Hot Butter Fire/Axe Tanker
Victory
Lvl 7 Whitecapper AR/Devices Blaster
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| 07/19/06 13:43 |
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thejeni
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It really is a shame. I remember fighting GMs were always a challenge for me and my teams. I just don't understand them wanting to push radiation on people. Where is the since in that?
As for skipping him, you can do so w/o a problem. And if he is anything like Kronos, he will disappear after a bit if no one comes out to fight him.
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| 07/19/06 13:51 |
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Kid Standard
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Last night my L24 tanker responded to a call that Babbage had spawned in Boomtown.
With the first group, we could do nothing -- and that group included an L39 character (I believe she was a defender, so that may have had something to do with it).
However, when that group broke off the attack we recruited more characters. My tanker was among the highest leveled characters in the group (there was an L24 scrapper and an L23 controller, I believe, as well as an L21 controller, a couple of other scrappers, a blaster and a defender, most of whom were in their mid to late teens).
We made short work of Babbage. The secret we discovered was Fulcrum Shift. Get him in with a couple of random low level spawns and suddenly your punches are effective and Babbage took about 2-3 minutes of fighting to go down.
Fulcrum Shift: the bane of big Clockwork bosses.
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| 07/19/06 16:04 |
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Thundarpants
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Welcome to the site Kid!
You know, that is some good advise there. We didn't have a Kinetics on the team, but I like the approach y'all took to beating him. I like the idea that Radiation powers aren't the only solution.
It would have taken a Kinetics Defender on the team, or either a Troller or Defender on one of the helping teams. You know, I'm very familiar with Kinetics, and I didn't hear a single Fulcrum Shift go off.
Thanx for the tip! >^__^<
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| 07/19/06 16:53 |
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tdfloyd77
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I know what you mean. after I7, I did the moonfire TF with a 8 man team. but finally when we got to the end after hours of playing. we could not take the AV down simply because we had no rad toon on the team. hit her non stop for about an hour. with the exception of one or two backin off to rest end. we all were very upset. these new AV's are made now to were you have to have a rad toon on the team. heck that may be my next toon. :)
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| 07/19/06 17:10 |
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Kid Standard
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Thanks!
I've been considering a Kin-troller after last night. That fulcrum shift was far too cool. I went looking for info on the site, though, and surprisingly couldn't find anything on it.
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| 07/19/06 20:41 |
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Ion_Paragon
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I don't know much about the changes to the Giant Monsters and Arch Villians, but if the main problem is them regenerating damage. Then one solution could be the basic transfusion heal from kinetics which does slow down regeneration.
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| 07/19/06 22:06 |
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Thundarpants
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Hey Ampers, I have a request.
After several post strings about GMs that are easily defeated in the open zones, I've started to get the feeling that the Babbage that spawns with the TF is bugged. Potentially still on the insane regen rate that came with I7 initially.
Has anyone ran Synapse since the last patch, and if you have, how hard was he? I'd like to bug this, but we've had another patch since then. I did not see any reference to this correction in the patch notes, but those are never complete. They may have fixed it and just not told us. There was already an anouncement about the regen rate correction.
There is also the possibility that he doesn't always spawn at that insane setting, but we did have a team full of 50's auto exemp'd down to run the TF, and the leader was a 50. It may have set the monster to their level. My reasoning about this is that another poster mentioned that they were actually able to take him down with a little help and their original team. I assure you that would not have been possible for the one that spawned for our TF run.
It may take a group of 50's running this to prove the bug.
Any input would help.
Thanx, Thundar
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| 08/04/06 12:44 |
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bigspeer
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i know jordan ran it within the past week or so with one of his alien mutts.
I won't dress up as Frosty the Snowman for a Christmas party...
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| 08/04/06 12:48 |
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Valentine
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Well when i was doing the task force for the updated write up the other night we did take down babbage.... with 7 people.
It only took our team of 6 and one extra to rip through his health, i have to say that GM wise he is one of the easiest to take down. As for taking 25 people to take him down, that is quite shocking to be honest, i can see no way there should have been that much trouble getting him planted in the ground.
Granted it was the turning point when the additional rad/rad defender turned up, but we had whittled his health down prior to that anyway.
Also, point of interest, you dont have to take him down to progress with the task force just to get the babbage badge.
Oh, Hello Mr. Jurassik! Sorry about that arrow, it wasnt aimed at you. I'll just be on my way now... *flees*
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| 08/04/06 12:52 |
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Thundarpants
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Valentine, did you have any exemp'd 50's on your team, and if you did, were they the TF leader?
This is why I'm wondering. We hade enough damage dealers out there completely unassociated with the TF that were all remarking that he was taking no damage. We should have made a dent, and nothing. I don't think it's an every time bug, I think it takes a certain set of conditions. I think the team dynamic sets the conditions.
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| 08/04/06 13:54 |
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Warron Peace
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Hmm, looks like I've already been mentioned here (thanks Gec!). Just thought I would list the powers that actually debuff regen rates, so that ppl who have to fight a GM or AV can plan ahead, and not just spend hours looking for a radiation emission user to solve the problem.
Kinetics: Transfusion- FBAoE, -endurace, -regen, +heal, rolls a to-hit check
Radiation Emission: Lingering Radiation- FBAoE, -speed, -recharge, -regen, rolls a to-hit check
Dark Miasma: Twilight Grasp- Targeted Foe, -Acc, -Dam, +heal (PBAoE), rolls a to-hit check
These are the only powers that I am Positive carry a regen debuff. I'm sure there are others out there, and I really don't know about some of the Villains only powersets, such as traps or poisons.
One of the main reasons Radiation Emission is so powerful is that it also debuffs defence, tohit, resistance, and damage output, basically nerfing the foe to nothingness. (Think pre-ED to post-ED, and you got a good idea of what Radiation does to them.) However, not all of those is need to beat an AV or GM nowadays. A guaranteed way to beat them is to have someone with a -regen power, which I posted above.
However, just last night I took a team of 8 up against Adamastor (Mission Spawned one, not the Zone Spawn). Suffice to say we totally rocked his world. The team makeup did not include any radiation emissioners. We had 2 or 3 scrappers, and emp fender, and bubble fender, 2 or 3 blasters and a fire/storm controller with imps. We had no debuffs on Adamastor other than Snow Storm and the occasional Freezing Rain. None of us had any Shivan or Warwolves out (I have both, but didn't use them, didn't need to.) So while it is tougher nowadays to face off against AV's and GM's, it is by no means impossible. It just takes longer and a little more planning than it did before. Just remember, if you have to have a -regen debuff, Kinetics and Dark Miasma can help you out, and they can do it from day one, whereas Rads have to wait till 12 for their -regen.
Hope this helps,
Warron
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| 08/04/06 14:08 |
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Whimcycle
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Hummm,
I was with Jordan on that Synapse run. We yelled for help as soon as we exited the door. We had a couple of Shivans out, but that didn't really help. I was on defensive Healing, so I wasn't kicking any damage in other than my pets every three minutes. The tide didn't turn on Babbage until the SG big guns were able to cut free of their mission and then Babbage was gone in about 3 minutes, but it took 20+ heros almost 20 minutes to get him.
=~Whimcycle~=
A fleeting shadow in the crowd.
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| 08/04/06 15:33 |
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Thundarpants
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| QUOTE | Hummm,
I was with Jordan on that Synapse run. We yelled for help as soon as we exited the door. We had a couple of Shivans out, but that didn't really help. I was on defensive Healing, so I wasn't kicking any damage in other than my pets every three minutes. The tide didn't turn on Babbage until the SG big guns were able to cut free of their mission and then Babbage was gone in about 3 minutes, but it took 20+ heros almost 20 minutes to get him. |
Whim, do you remember if your TF leader was an exemp'd down 50?
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| 08/10/06 13:33 |
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blackphoenix
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Yeah, I was one of the ones that showed up for that. When I got there he was only down about 1/3 health. Within the next 2 to 3 minutes after the rest of us showed up, he was on the ground for good. I showed up with my lvl 35 ill/emp. All I did was drop PA and Phantasm, then put autoheal on. So if someone was debuffing his regen, it wasn't me.
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| 08/10/06 13:42 |
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MissMagnificent
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I did synapse right after I7 hit. It took us 4 full teams to take him down. I was the team leader (lvl 21) as an Emp/Rad defender. I couldn't debuff his regen, but I have one attack soleley dedicated to debuffing defense. I don't think I ever saw a 'miss' during that fight. Even with 32 people, it took us 20-25 minutes of hammering (with no misses) to finish him off.
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| 08/10/06 13:42 |
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Thundarpants
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Thanx for the info gang. It really looks like the spawn is glitchy, I just haven't put my finger on the root condition that causes it.
If you look at the overall responces, sometimes he seems to spawn as a normal, but hard to kill GM, and other times he spawns as an unstoppable beast that takes multiple groups of 50's to take down. That can't be right overall.
I'll be bugging this the next time I'm on.
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| 08/11/06 09:32 |
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bigspeer
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hey thundaaaar, i'm going to try and run synapse sometime saturday. probably during the day some time becuase my family is leaving for 2 days and i'll have the house to myself with uninterrupted gameplay! i'd like to get 2 or 3 TFs complete saturday some time, so if you're online, i'll PM you. whats your global?
I won't dress up as Frosty the Snowman for a Christmas party...
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| 08/11/06 09:42 |
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