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City of Heroes: The most evil Archvillain?

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Hellmeister

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The most evil Archvillain?

Who in your opinion is the most evil Archvillain?

I'm not even tempted to say Recluse in honesty, he might be the 'main' AV, but i'd personally put Nemesis infront on him myself.

I say Nemesis for many reasons, mainly because he has a major role to play in the game but we do not yet fully know what it is! Trust me he's got a big story lurking i think.

Then there was the whole Brass monday incident, and when he tried to make himself the emporer of the USA, and then detonated 20 nerve gas bombs that almost wiped out entire cities. Then there comes the suspious parts, hes over 100 years old, because i reckon he is a time traveler (much to be revealed with i12) and he is boudn to have some part in ourborous, i mean just look at the place.

One more thing, mender Silos. What do you get if you re-arrange this? Lord Nemesis anyone?

I reckon (with some help from Midnight G) that somethings going down in funky town...

Your most evil archvillain + why please?

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

03/19/08 13:27

Perceptor II

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

I don't know about most evil, but I do get the impression that we've been building up to something big involving Nemesis over several issues. In particular, it seems that Issues 10 and 11 have had them working behind the scenes, and the Issue 12 story sounds like it will combine elements from 10 & 11.

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03/19/08 16:38

Hellmeister

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

QUOTE

Exactly what i'm saying. Nemesis has strictly speaking been behind the most evil plots in game, which is why i say sod recluse, i want to work for Nemesis! The uniforms look cooler too!

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03/19/08 16:43

Perceptor II

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

Well, Nemesis is being used because there needs to be content for both heroes and villains, and player-villains are Arachnos members.

03/19/08 19:02

bold-lightning

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

I definetly agree that Nemesis is more evil than Arachnos. Not only from his 1st appearance to his mysterious involvement with the Rikti (won't spoil anything from RWZ arcs). Also what other group has the fun tacky civil war era costumes and trombone guns. :D

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03/19/08 21:11

bigspeer

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

I wouldn't say Nemesis is more evil than Recluse. I don't think that could be possible. But I'd say that Nemesis is more calculating and sinister than Recluse. LR is a pretty evil dude.

03/20/08 06:20

Phedre_D

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

Lord Recluse is an old sock! Have you ever been to Grandville? His endless litanies are a complete bore. No, the most evil Archvillain is Countess Grey. Corporate power will always win. Money talks. While most Archvillains are just after destroying and petty revenge she managed to build up an empire and has now the facilities to do whatever she likes. Her only drawback is that she loves her wealth too much to go full blast against the heroes.

Hmm, maybe I should set up an appointment with her and exchange some notes. I have some ideas ...

03/20/08 06:43

Phase_of_Echoes

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

Gotta say Doc Vahz...

Anyone that would go around kidnapping people to use as "spare parts" has got to be high on the Evil Food chain. Granted he does not have any really cool powers but hey... cutting people up? Come on...

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

03/20/08 07:34

RonJ73

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

Envoy of Shadows - I mean come on...he's a freekin DEMON!

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03/20/08 09:19

Hellmeister

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

QUOTE

Envoy of Shadows - I mean come on...he's a freekin DEMON!

Drawing on this point and Dr. Vaz, i'm tempted to rank Baron Zoria (an archmage founder of the CoT) as my no. 3. In general what isnt evil about the CoT? They kill people, steal their souls and then put their dead comrades in their victim's bodies. They know too much about magic, summon demons and spectors. They are a pain in the butt at anypoint from 5 - 50, and they have tried World domination one time too many too.

Persides the CoT probably have the second or third largest army of followers in game, after the council and Arachnos.

Thats my top three, in order:
Nemesis
Lord Recluse
Baron Zoria

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03/20/08 09:59

lani

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

Who's more evil?
He who wants to rule the world, or he who wants to destroy it?
Define evil before you ask who's most of it.

Nemesis seems to be the 'Villain on the Move' right now, who's making things happen. Doesn't mean he's more evil than Recluce, who's madly cackling about subjecting his underlings to his videos and not really doing much of anything. Probably because Recluse is pretty much 'the establishment' and part of the status quo. Nemesis is more likely to affect changes in the (near) future.

Just my 2 cts.

03/20/08 10:19

Perceptor II

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

I tend to subscribe to C.S. Lewis' theory of evil as presented in Out of the Silent Planet. The book presents two different forms of evil men: "broken" and "bent". Broken people are wholly given to evil, but because of this they are unable to inspire loyalty in others or formulate great plans as they live only to satisfy their wicked urges in the moment. Bent people are inspired to do evil acts for a goal they believe to be a good one. They're actions tend to be farther-reaching. Broken people are more evil, but bent people are more dangerous. So perhaps it is actually groups like the Hellions and Skulls that are the most evil, but aren't all that dangerous because they're idiots.

03/20/08 11:12

lani

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

I always felt Lewis' definition to be lacking. Maybe because Lewis believes in Evil as an absolute and I don't.
But by this definition, Hellions and Skulls aren't broken but bent. It's loyalty that keeps gangs together more than anything. Both those groups are modelled (sp?) on real life street-gangs which tend to be formed on many motives only some of which might be considered "Evil". At the same time, few gang-members would go so far as to believe they're 'Good' either. Both in-game groups have goals that might be considered Evil, onto others mainly. But they're not that far of from gathering power to survive in adversity, which is the basis for most gangs.

Sorry, drifting off topic :-)

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03/20/08 11:23

Str0ker

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

I vote for Tyrant and all the portal Villains. Cause most Villains really aren't that bad, they think what they are doing is right to make the world what they think it should be. An Evil person knows right from wrong and chooses to do wrong for no other reason than, because.

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03/20/08 12:53

Donovan Wolf

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

As for me?

I say Tyrant is the most evil. He's already taken over his world, with his evil lieutenants. Just his dimension alone isnt enough to slake his thirst for power, he has to bent many others to his will. . . .and then he sees our dimension.

Close second, I would say would be Nemisis. Hes definatly someone who has been at the evil game for a really long time. he is a patient villian who doesnt mind his schemes taking time to come to fruition. Patient villians in my book are more dangerous than the ones that are cant wait. Nemi is defiantly a serious baddy thats been behind the scenes of many of many story arcs. Also yeah Mender Silas/nemesis that would be something the devs would use wouldnt it. It worked for hero one/honoree.

3rd place in my book would be lord recluse: he's bad and he knows it. He has his own island nation, has other arch villians do his dirty work, and is just plain nasty.

A personal fav of mine in badness is the ex 5th council AV requeum. Ive been facinated with the evil character since the old original coh comic books with warwitch/apex and horus came out. He's not only bad, but looks cool and has quite a dangerous history involving the nictus and the kheldians. It's speculated that he is the one behind the science that transofrmed renegade peacebringers into the evil nictus. Hence why in the comics he was called "science lord" by the peacebringer horus.

Since I wrote that story over the x-mas holidays, ive had alot of people in game as well as out ask me when i'm going to continue the story with Silver Puppy. Basically I've since replied that I want to write out a story arc involving req and silver having a throwdown somewhere. I really liked the story arc in the old comic with horus just thought it would be cool if I could somehow fan fic silver getting involved with that a little in the present day.

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03/20/08 16:10

Nasazi Peace

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

Evil is not really a good word for describing most of the villains in the game. Most believe what they do is for their greater good. They want to become more than they are and use force to get it.

The main force that could be considered evil by means of most religions are the CoT because of their use and knowledge of magic and ritual sacrifice. THought they are not truly evil because they believe what they are doing is good, at least for them and their way of life.

Lord Recluse is an established ruler of his domain. He is a cruel master and would kill his own if it kept him i power. His power and his dominance over other villains is what keeps him lazy. If he didn't have it so easy being a cruel leader he might do more than his constant banter.

Nemesis on the other hand is very interesting and I respect this character for he is very clever(at least the creators are =D) He is very calculating and patient. Waiting for the right opportunities to strike. The story that is folding out before us is very interesting and will not be disappointing (at least i hope not)

The hellion and the Skulls have already be spoken for and i agree with what has been said. They are gangs that do what the must to survive, and it may not be the nicest way to most but it is their way.

Tyrant is interesting and though i kinda zoned out warron fills me in on what he has done and i do rememebr saving the statesmen from him. SO he is another powerful force, but one who to me is not really evil just motivated to do what is best for himself more than others.

So for me none are evil but some are more active and calculating than others. I do not know all villains because i haven't really gone through it all with as much attention as i have wanted to.

Nemesis is my number one for the most interesting and calculating villain. CoT in second and Tyrant in third.

If i am wrong or inaccurate about something please fill me in, still trying to remember more about the game, finally getting into it again.

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above is Warron peace...really thats how he is =D

03/20/08 16:50

Hellmeister

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

There is no right or wrong, its a discussion. Still to be fair Nemesis gets my vote, he will happily kill many people just to down heroes (brass monday, the President attack ect) and he has much to come. What really tops him for me is that he has clones of himself, all good AV's should had clones. He can also apprently time travel which is why he has been around for so long. So just how patient is he if he can skip through time to a relevant date?

All interesting discussion. Nemesis is definatly the smartest AV out there in my opinion!

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03/20/08 18:33

Anachron

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

i can't say "most evil" about any of them as depending on how you look and judge each they have their own "evil rating" if your looking for "over-all" evilest that would logically and simply be the one who does the most "evil" most of the time. in this instance for sheer number of "evil" acts nemesis "aside from the nictus" has been at the evil game the longest. though of course CoT and rikti have been at the game for a very long time as well the rikti AV's seem a bit weak.

i would prefer to say the av's are "diversely evil" and as it applies to my charactor when i am challenging them in arcs. for most evil i must look elsewhere, i prefer to see the contacts as "most evil" cause i swear no matter what you do for them they go out of their way to get you killed. at least with av's i know they want to kick my butt and can act accordingly but contacts pat you on the back, often give you a fairly simple thank you, then send you off to get smacked upon.

keep your av "evil" rating lol for my money the contacts make the av's look like girl scouts.

that's my 2 inf for whatever it's worth.

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03/20/08 20:15

Nasazi Peace

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

QUOTE

keep your av "evil" rating lol for my money the contacts make the av's look like girl scouts.

that's my 2 inf for whatever it's worth.

now thats the truth =D

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03/20/08 21:33

Falcon15

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

Ah the "what is evil" argument rears it's head. Please bear in mind the following is clearly statement of opinion, supported by facts, but opinion none the less.

Here it goes: You cannot point your finger at evil, you cannot cut it with a sword, you cannot break it with your fist. The ideas of good and evil are all based on where you stand, morally, societally, and mentally when you have good and evil defined to you. Yes, defined to you. There is not one of us born with an innate sense of good or evil. We have instinctual feelings, at best, of "right" and "wrong". All else is taught to us by our parents, peers, or even in a limited sense our societies themselves.

Back to the topic at hand: The most evil Archvillain. Here I have to side with Phe: the Countess Crey. One of the most down-right, morally reprehensible, emotionally bankrupt beings on the planet. Power for the sake of power. Nothing else. A grave robbing, gene stealing, murderous, conniving, hate filled sack of puss out to get petty revenge on people because she feels like she has been wronged and to hell with mere mortals. Pawns...tools...fools. Money and power forged a creature so far skewed from humanity that it can barely be defined as human except in the most vague sense of genetic identity.

Doctor Vahz? Psychotic? Yes. Twisted? Yes. All in all though his methods are flawed, his primary motivation was one of purest and noblest ones. The preservation and augmentation of human kind, to make us better than we are so that none would suffer and die.

Envoy of Shadows? Dark? Yes. Powerful? Yes. Demonic? Hell (pardon the pun) yes. Here, follow me with a look at a demon through the eyes of the poet Milton. A man who, through his epic poem "Paradise Lost", chronicles the fall of Lucifer and his followers, and their exile from Heaven. Essentially the only sin the fallen angels (all, including Lucifer) suffer from is one of pride. Pride that boils down to essentially: "'Tis better to rule in Hell than bend knee in Heaven". Spite and anger shape and define the fallen, so in their agony and torment of being denied perfection the fallen, as any feeling being does, lash out at the most available and weakest creation of their tormentor...humans.

Nemesis? A tin-plated god in a brass coffin. Held together by steam age technology and the sheer perverse will to live. The divine right to rule through conquest. For thousands of years conquest and ongoing expansion were and in some cases still are the mark of greatness. Nem is a bit sick in the bean, probably not quite human any more, more or less just your average super-powered freak who is most likely hanging on to his identity as a human being only through sheer will. Nemesis is more like a cold, calculating...well...automaton. A scheming, genius of an automaton whose programming is stuck in one mode...conquer or die.

Lord Recluse? A petty dictator with delusions of his own importance. He is more concerned with keeping the upper hand. Hell, he can't even rule the Rouge Isles properly. Have you seen the CRIME RATE there? I mean come on, gimme a break, even Recluse's own forces are criminals and they are laughing at LR all the way to the bank vault!

Tyrant and his Ilk: Ah shades of "Mirror, Mirror", oh Star Trek strikes again. 'Nuff said.

That, boys and girls is my 2 cents worth of opinion. That and $4.98 will buy you a Mocha Latte at Starbucks.

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03/20/08 22:08

Nasazi Peace

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

QUOTE

Back to the topic at hand: The most evil Archvillain. Here I have to side with Phe: the Countess Crey. One of the most down-right, morally reprehensible, emotionally bankrupt beings on the planet. Power for the sake of power. Nothing else. A grave robbing, gene stealing, murderous, conniving, hate filled sack of puss out to get petty revenge on people because she feels like she has been wronged and to hell with mere mortals. Pawns...tools...fools. Money and power forged a creature so far skewed from humanity that it can barely be defined as human except in the most vague sense of genetic identity.

i dont know much about the countess crey but the way i have been seeing her described seems like she is the worst of them all.

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03/21/08 09:24

Sturmwolf

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

QUOTE

Agreed.

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03/21/08 09:53

Falcon15

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

Damn. Quoted twice...I must have my fangs drawn. I can only imagine what people must think of me.

"The most skillful sword never leaves it's sheath" - Japanese Proverb
No matter how powerful and mighty you are, a bullet between the eyes will seriously screw up your day.

YIM: tarient

03/21/08 10:39

Str0ker

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

Ok, after reading what Falcon had to say I've come to a conclusion. I think I'm evil. If I wasn't so lazy or had no CoH to play, I think I'd do some really bad stuff. Thats a little scary.

I do agree that a lot of the villains in CoX are not really evil, more like misguided. The only truly evil person in CoH is the guy in Atlas at the bottom of the steps thats always protesting something. Man I hate that guy.

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03/21/08 10:48

Nasazi Peace

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

QUOTE

Lol now thats kinda scary, we are all glad we have CoX to play. That guy that is always protesting something is kinda annoying..i wish i could attack him..it would make the day a little better...like in the WWE wrestling when they hit the ref..i loveit when they do that =D..to bad we couldnt hit ms liberty for not helping out when the rikti attack atlas..that would be nice..she's so lazy

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above is Warron peace...really thats how he is =D

03/21/08 11:04

Falcon15

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

QUOTE

Think you are evil? Man, if you were, you would know. No questions asked. You probably skirt the gray zone between good/evil, like all normal people. However you have...for lack of a better word...a censor...that functions. It keeps you from performing the really bad acts you really want to do. Mine shorts out from time to time and I play CoV for a few weeks, and realize that my villains are small time evil, so I write nasty letters to people who have ticked me off. I never send the letters, I burn them, and that is my censor at work.

Except for that one time...

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

"The most skillful sword never leaves it's sheath" - Japanese Proverb
No matter how powerful and mighty you are, a bullet between the eyes will seriously screw up your day.

YIM: tarient

03/21/08 11:08

Str0ker

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RE: The most evil Archvillain?

I don't know. The other day a friend and I were discussing global Economics and China's role in the out sourcing of American jobs. About half way in he totally changed his stand that started the whole thing and starting acting smug like he was right from the beginning. So I waited about an hour and when he was busy fighting an AV on CoV I set his chair on fire. That makes me the winner, cause he had stand up the rest of the night.

***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***

http://www.secretworldchronicle.com/bookone.php

03/21/08 11:37